RELOADED EP530 - From Challenger To Champion with Mike Anderson

2009 World Duck Calling Champion Mike Anderson joins the DU Podcast to talk calls, calling and his favorite pastime, chasing river ducks.  Anderson takes us on his journey from childhood to putting in the time and road miles that lead to becoming World Champion. We also discuss his favorite competition and hunting style calls and how Rich-N-Tone founder Butch Richenback mentored him all the way to the top of the contest calling mountain.

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Creators and Guests

Writer

John Gordon

DUPodcast Contributor

What is Ducks Unlimited Podcast?

Ducks Unlimited Podcast is a constant discussion of all things waterfowl; from in-depth hunting tips and tactics, to waterfowl biology, research, science, and habitat updates. The DU Podcast is the go-to resource for waterfowl hunters and conservationists. Ducks Unlimited is the world's leader in wetlands conservation.

VO: 00:03

Welcome to the Ducks Unlimited podcast, Reloaded, where we bring you the best of our past episodes. Whether you're a seasoned waterfowler or curious about conservation, this series is for you. Over the years, we've had incredible guests and discussions about everything from wetland conservation to the latest waterfowl research and hunting strategies. In Reloaded, we're revisiting those conversations to keep the passion alive and the mission strong. So sit back, relax, and enjoy this reload.

John Gordon: 00:35

Hello, everybody, and welcome again to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. I'm your host, John Gordon. It's November, everybody. Duck seasons, ghost seasons, rolling all over the countryside. We're gonna open up down here in Arkansas soon.

John Gordon: 00:49

Tennessee, Mississippi, the last of the seasons to open. Everybody else is pretty well going at this point. And my subject and my guest today, we're gonna talk about something that is on everybody's mind at this point in time, and that's and that's duck calling. And specifically, you know, what calls to use, when to use them, how you get great at it, how you become better at it. We're just gonna really dive into all these different subjects, and my guest today is 2,009 world duck calling champion, Mike Anderson.

John Gordon: 01:21

Mike, welcome to the DU podcast.

Mike Anderson: 01:23

Hey. What's up, Gordo? How are you, man?

John Gordon: 01:25

Man, I'm awesome, dude. Well, folks, we'll you'll be able to see this on DU Nation where we hunted with Mike in in his stomping grounds really on the Missouri River, and it was a great time.

Mike Anderson: 01:37

That's right.

John Gordon: 01:38

Thanks for having us, Mike.

Mike Anderson: 01:39

Hey, man. Thanks for coming. Yeah. It was. It it was it was one of those special times where the birds kinda show up.

Mike Anderson: 01:44

You know? We zigged, and we should've zagged here and there, but, man, we still got to see a pretty good show. That's for sure.

John Gordon: 01:49

Yeah. It really was. We we hit the migration right. That big front had hit North Dakota, and those birds were spilling out in big numbers, And it it really it was it was really a pretty cool deal to see all that. You know, the migration is an incredible thing anyway, and to be in the middle of it is really special.

Mike Anderson: 02:05

Yeah. It's awesome, man. Anytime you see you see a snow in the forecast in North Dakota, in Montana, in in in Canada, it's like rally the troops, man, fill up the gas tanks, and and hop on the trucks and and head to the river. It it was worth the trip, man. It was it was one of those days where they show up overnight, and you're you're driving through the Main River Channel, and you're running snow geese and and and ducks out of the Main River Channel.

John Gordon: 02:28

That's right. We got that all on film too. There was just there was a tremendous amount of birds right there in the middle of the river, which are not normally there unless they've just gotten there. And so that was really some pretty cool footage. Mike, let's go back in time a little bit.

Mike Anderson: 02:40

Yes,

John Gordon: 02:41

Now you're from you're from Minnesota. Yeah. And how how'd you really get started in in waterfowl hunting?

Mike Anderson: 02:47

Well, waterfowl hunting, it was definitely a family thing for me, and we we we hunted everything. And I always use the analogy that my dad was a deer hunter that duck hunted, and we started around eight years old. But what really, you know, got me hooked is I I had an uncle that moved to Texas in the early eighties, like '81, '82, somewhere around there. And what he used to do is buy me and my cousin DU Greenwing memberships. And then he would come back out from Texas and tell me all stories about the ducks that he would shoot down there, and he would just feel the fire of of me being a, you know, seven, eight, nine, 10 year old up here in Minnesota shooting a ring neck and a and a wood duck kinda deal and and just really, you know, drove the passion for me to not only, you know, learn how to blow a duck call, but but to hunt more and and wanna hunt more and wanna hunt ducks in a in a real big way.

John Gordon: 03:36

I gotcha. I got transplanted in Texas in that same time frame, early eighties, and that was that was the glory days of the 10 duck.

Mike Anderson: 03:44

Right.

John Gordon: 03:44

In Texas because we weren't hunting mallards. I I had moved from Mississippi where, you know, it was you you know, that's all you ever saw, mallards, maybe an occasional wood duck.

Mike Anderson: 03:52

Right.

John Gordon: 03:53

And now all of a sudden, I'm in this wonderland where the pintails are 10 points. Yeah. And and people are are are ringing out straps of seventy, eighty Drakes out of the marshes, and it seems like, you know, blasphemy now, man. But those that was the glory days of the pintail populations. But even then, all the ducks just about were tens.

John Gordon: 04:13

They you know, Gadwal, Widgeon, Teal, they were all 10.

Mike Anderson: 04:16

It was crazy. He he would come back up, and he would visit at least once or twice a year, and he'd bring up Polaroids of pictures that he'd be sitting there. And then me being a little guy that hung up in Northern Minnesota, like, couldn't even wrap my head around what what he got to do and what he got to see, and it just, man, it just fueled the fire for where I'm at today, and and the love and desire that I have for it is is direct you know, direct a result of of him kinda stoking those flames.

John Gordon: 04:42

Gotcha. I gotcha. So so you're a kid coming up, and, of course, every kid that I know or knew wanted to be proficient at duck calling. I mean, that's the big deal. Right?

John Gordon: 04:53

You think, man, if I can just learn how to call, they're just gonna fall from the sky. It doesn't work like that. Yeah. Yeah. But you think that, you know, and and it and it it does make a difference, especially with Mallard's.

John Gordon: 05:04

Let's face it. I mean, they they they're the ones you're really trying to work with. We were talking about Gadwalls earlier. I'm not sure they can be called with anything. They like to ignore everything.

Mike Anderson: 05:14

Them a lot of things.

John Gordon: 05:15

Yeah. You call them a lot of things. That's right. But the old GAD, my friend. Anyway

Mike Anderson: 05:20

Yeah. So, you know, that that fueled the fire, and then and then sometime in the nineties, me and my dad, we we got a lease in Western Minnesota, and it was around the time of our our the spinners first got into it. And and we went out there, and and that's the first time that I can remember really killing Mallards in a good way. And it was like a kind of like an moment. Like, this is what I want to do and and and what I who I want to be.

Mike Anderson: 05:45

And then I I think around '99 or 2000, I went to game fair and watched a contest there and said, you know, hey. I could do that. And that's kinda where it started.

John Gordon: 05:56

Obviously, started you on a path that you really, you know, took to all the way. I mean, if you're becoming a champion in anything, it takes tremendous amount of dedication. I mean, how long did it really take you before you knew you could go into a contest and win?

Mike Anderson: 06:11

Man, that's a loaded question, and and and it's a it's I I could tell you this. You know, in '99, I went and watched the contest, and I went to a store. We had a pier called Gander Mountain, And they used to have a little glass call case, and inside that glass call case, there was expensive calls. And there was one in there that was a $130, and it happened to be an RNT original. And I I bought it saying, you know, well, that must be good.

Mike Anderson: 06:31

It's a $130. And I that, and I started practicing on that. And then I ordered a VHS of the and I'm I'm gonna butcher it. I think it's 2000. It's two thousand one world's championship.

Mike Anderson: 06:44

Me and a buddy of mine ordered that VHS, and we wore that sucker out back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And and we used to record ourselves, and, you know, we got to a point where we thought we were pretty good and and started entering our first contest and figured out we were not that good. And then just, you know, kinda got back to the drawing board and worked hard, worked hard, and and, you know, honestly, from, you know, 2000 to, gosh, I'd say, like, 2007, 2008, if if I were to have an hour meter for how much time, you know, I put in to practicing my call, getting better at my call, being proficient with my call, I I I would honestly be almost embarrassed to admit to what that hour meter would be. But I I bet if you talk to anyone who has had any sort of success in the calling contest world, whether you're a world champion or just a a proficient contest caller, there's a point in time where all of us put in an amount of work that is hard to describe.

John Gordon: 07:46

Yeah. I think it was Malcolm Gladwell talks about the ten thousand hour deal. Right? Yeah. But that's what it takes Yeah.

John Gordon: 07:52

To become proficient or really good at anything.

Mike Anderson: 07:55

It's a deal that you get out of it what you put into it. You know, if, you know, it it some people call it a talent, and and I think it's a little bit of a talent. I was a band geek growing up, but but I I think it's more of a learned skill than it is a talent. If if you wanna be good at at operating a duck call, you can. You just gotta put in the sacrifice and the time and and and really get after it.

John Gordon: 08:18

Exactly. You brought up a really good point. You had to buy a VHS tape, and I don't think people Yeah. You know, that are they're from the younger generation understand that how little on calling was available then. You had some records or cassettes you could listen to.

John Gordon: 08:31

You had a maybe had a tape, you know, of a calling contest, where now they just go on YouTube and just man, you just type in anything and pop it up, you can just sit there and follow along and learn it all.

Mike Anderson: 08:42

Man, it it is crazy to think the evolution that happened in contest calling and in general, like, in in life in general. But contest calling, when I first started, I had to get in my truck, fill it up with gas, drive to Peoria, knowing I was going to get my butt kicked. I don't eat my $50, but it was the only place I can go listen to a Jim Ronquist or Bernie Boyle or or any of those guys. You know? And then I'd go to Kansas City and and go to all these regionals, and everybody did.

Mike Anderson: 09:08

You know? We would have, you know, what what I call the glory years of contest calling would be the 2 thousands. It was you know, YouTube was a thing, but it wasn't a thing yet. And you'd you'd go to Kansas City, and there'd be four regionals in KC, and there'd be forty, fifty guys in every regional. And and you go to Peoria, Illinois.

Mike Anderson: 09:25

You you you go to all these places, and it was, you know, Burlington, Iowa, Arkansas, all that. And and there's always forty, fifty guys. It was always highly competitive. It was a lot of fun back then. I felt like you know, I I've kinda gotten back into it here recently, and and and still some of the same guys are into it.

Mike Anderson: 09:44

And and young guys are good guys, but it's a different feel. Back then, it was you know, these were our friends. This this is who we all hung out with for for those those ten, fifteen years, and and it was awesome. And it doesn't it doesn't feel that way, and I and I think that is a direct result of YouTube. You know, instead of having to go put fill up the truck and drive in these contests and go watch these things, you know, if I'm 20 years old, I go on YouTube and I record myself and I can self evaluate.

Mike Anderson: 10:10

I can say, well, I'm not ready to compete yet. I'm not gonna spend the money on gas, and and I think that's where our our current status is at.

John Gordon: 10:17

Yeah. And it's a little sad because that's where you develop real camaraderie with the guys. It was always the same guys on the circuit Yeah. You know, at every contest, and you really you got relationships with those folks, and it once again, like you said, it's just really missing now.

Mike Anderson: 10:29

Yeah. It's there's a disconnect. You know, some of my closest friends in this world live a thousand miles away, and I can I can attribute that to that to a duck call? And I wouldn't trade those times in for, you know, for anything, and I feel I feel really bad for the young kids in in a way not bad, I should say, for the young kids that are into it like we were that don't get to experience like we did. And and, you know, it's probably the same old guy thing my parents said, you know, about things too.

Mike Anderson: 10:58

You know, when they look at the young people, they look at you know, they didn't agree with it or didn't like it as much, so I might be just the crotchety old guy, but I I just feel like it's different.

John Gordon: 11:07

It is. It is. And here here's a pretty specific question for you. Say this is 2009, you know, and you're waking up in the morning. It's the you know, you're stuck, Gart.

John Gordon: 11:17

And what's it like? What do what would you do to prepare yourself physically and mentally to go out there and compete at the highest level?

Mike Anderson: 11:24

So physically, it would be practice. And at that time, I was kind of at the the point to where my practice was more maintenance. I knew what I was going wanted to do. I knew how to do it. I just had to prepare myself to have the wind and strength built up and then the mental side.

Mike Anderson: 11:42

So what I would do back then is for the, you know, six to eight weeks leading up to the contest, I would pick up my call. I would blow three routines. If I blew all three clean, I put it down and left it alone. And then mentally, how I prepared you know, I'm a baseball coach. A little bit like baseball.

Mike Anderson: 11:59

It's kind of an I I always say with baseball, if you believe you can, you will. And when it came to blowing the duck call, it's kinda the same thing. Now it's a beauty contest, not a not a not a race or a measured thing. So it's like, I can I can't line up next to you, John, and we can't race to the end of this road and and beat each other? You know, duck calling's a little bit different, but mentally, I prepared myself in that way where I felt confident what I was going to do.

Mike Anderson: 12:22

I was gonna get up on stage and do what I had practiced and was prepared to do.

John Gordon: 12:27

Well, that's huge. That just yeah. That's mental preparation, I think, for anything. The the the belief in yourself that you can do it is everything. Without that, it's just never gonna happen.

John Gordon: 12:36

And I think you think that's what really separates the guys who've been, you know, the top level champions from from everybody else?

Mike Anderson: 12:42

I think that's a part of it. I I think it's a big part of it. I also think, you know, it it gets the time they put in combined with the confidence that they gain, combined with the tool that they get in their hand. You know, back back when I was really getting after it, I had a I had a stretch where I had a hard time blowing a routine clean. In particular, I remember, like, 2006, 2007, I went to, like, 13 different contests, had a lead in 12 of them and squawked out in every one of them and and never even qualified.

Mike Anderson: 13:11

And then what I did is in the January '9, I I took a hunting trip to Arkansas just to work with Butcher Richemag, and he took time and built me a call that fit me. And and and, you know, I think it's I think it goes two ways with that. I think it truly fit me, but it also fit me and made me confident, if that makes sense. Like, it it it it got me confident with the tool that I had in my hand to where I could just go out, and it was like a broken record. I just never or I rarely would make a mistake and and just had everything that I needed in it kinda deal.

John Gordon: 13:47

That's excellent. It's interesting too how I I guess judges play a huge part in this sometimes, know, because everybody's you know, they have to know who's blowing the call sometimes, would think. They've heard it so many times. Right? Yeah.

John Gordon: 13:59

You know, and they have a preference for what they're listening for because, you know, you see some really young champions, a guy like Trey Crawford. I mean, was a 19 year old kid.

Mike Anderson: 14:07

Correct.

John Gordon: 14:07

And you got, like, Buck Gardner. I think it took him, like, you know, 12 tries, you know, before he ever won. So I think it's just perseverance has gotta be a big part of being a champion as well.

Mike Anderson: 14:17

Oh, yeah. For sure. And and the willing to to you know, I hate using this analogy because it's not necessarily grind, but being willing to grind through it and understand that you're you're gonna show up and and you're gonna get cut. You're not gonna make third round. And the next next one, you could do the same thing and and and win the dang thing.

Mike Anderson: 14:36

And and I finally got to a point where I I tried to structure my routine to where it was good enough where they couldn't deny me at least a decent score. I might not win, but I I tried to get it to a point where they couldn't deny me a decent score. And I and I think, ultimately, if you really wanna really nerd out when it comes to the scoring system and and calling contests, the goal shouldn't be to ever be everybody's favorite, but the guys that really win with that panel of five judges can can, you know, sing a song with your call that that becomes everybody's second favorite, and and everyone gives you above average score.

John Gordon: 15:11

That's it. I mean, and you're and you're spending the money on on entry fees and gasoline and everything else, and I'm sure a lot of guys who really could have been somebody in it got dissuaded by it, and you just gotta push through it. Like I said, it's a grind.

Mike Anderson: 15:25

Yeah. Totally. You have to push through it, and I haven't always pushed through it. You know, I I took some time away for for various reasons, you know, in the in the February, mostly to coach baseball, but, yeah, you have to you just gotta keep trucking, man. You gotta fill that gas the gas tank of your truck back up and drive to the next one.

John Gordon: 15:43

You mentioned Butch Richenbach. Do you think he's the guy who created more world champions than anybody else with his with his advice, with his tutelage?

Mike Anderson: 15:51

In my time, there's no question. Like, I owe my big trophy to him. Now, you know, I will say this with Butch. It he wasn't he wasn't like the the teach he he didn't teach me from scratch and and and teach me how to operate a duck call or this or that, but he just had a way about himself that will get you in line and and a way about himself that he could get a call tuned in a way that you just felt like it was what you needed. And and if you look back at all the names, the John Stevens, the Trey Crawfords, the the Jim Ronquist, the the the Brent Easleys, the Jody Nickums, you know, so many different guys that Brad Allen's that Butch Butch Butch Butch had a hand in.

Mike Anderson: 16:37

You know, it's one of them deals that's weird while you're in the process of it. Like, I love the man to death, and he was really, really, really good to me and helped me a lot. And and you didn't realize it necessarily while he was doing it, if that makes any sense. But when I look back at it, I would not be a world champion if not for Butch Rickenback.

John Gordon: 16:56

I think a lot of guys just had folks, for those of don't know, Butch Rickenback was the the founder of Rich and Tone Calls, a a real Arkansas legend, a disciple of of Chick Major, and I'm I'm looking at this box in here that I'm sure would be pretty much the envy of any call collector. We've got an, you know, an original box, a display box full of unopened Dixie Mallard calls, retail display box. Oh. I don't know what that thing's worth, but it's pretty cool to have it here in the podcast studio.

Mike Anderson: 17:24

Man, I tell you what, there's there's there's some Facebook sites that would tell you exactly what that thing is worth.

John Gordon: 17:29

I'm not even sure where they came from. I'm sure somebody probably donated them to us years ago, you know, and Right. You know, Chick, another guy and Chick was so great with kids, you know, the Chick and Sophie major scholarships

Mike Anderson: 17:41

Right.

John Gordon: 17:41

And all that. I mean, you know, people it's really the calling world has been has been good to a lot of people over the years. It's a it's been it's a really unique deal.

Mike Anderson: 17:48

It is. You know? And I'm I'm from up north. You know, I'm not from Arkansas, but obviously. But if if you look at the history of duck call making and duck calling, man, Arkansas, in particular, Stuttgart in that area, it is the epicenter.

Mike Anderson: 18:01

There are so many big names and and call makers and callers that have come, know, within 70 miles of that town. It's just incredible. You know? That that that's who and what duck calling is.

John Gordon: 18:12

And it makes perfect sense of why. That was the real epicenter of mallard hunting for so long. It was it was right there in in in the Stuttgart area. You had people like Slick McCollum and Marion McCollum of Max Prairie Wings and all these people who really created a a a real culture of duck calling, duck hunting in that area. So I think that really spawned some of the great callers in the past for sure.

Mike Anderson: 18:36

Yeah. 100%. 100%. And, you know, I think when when if we fast forward, you know, another twenty years, I think we'll look at Jim and John in in in the same through the same lens as we do those names that you just said. You know, I I can I can attribute a lot of my, you know, calling practice and improvement to those those CDs they made?

Mike Anderson: 18:57

I don't know what year it was, but they they had a set of three CDs, Foundations for Success, and I forget what the other two were called but called. But I know when when you sit and you listen to guys blow duck calls right now and and you listen to guys blow single cuts and this and that, it sounds exactly like Jim and John did in that CD set that they made twenty five years ago that I think a lot of us learned how to operate a duck call on.

John Gordon: 19:21

It's true. I I remember the first time I heard John blow a call, and that think it was on a whistling wing video from from back in the nineties. And thinking to myself, saying, my god. If I could ever learn how to call like that, it it would be amazing because his control is just it's astounding.

Mike Anderson: 19:38

I I I still listen to his feed call and think the same thing. Yeah. Like, it's kinda one of them little kid things. When I grow up, I wanna blow a feed call like John Stephens.

John Gordon: 19:46

Yeah. It was great. I've I've had John on the podcast in the past. We we did a DU Nation film at Collapalooza this past summer. That was a really cool event.

John Gordon: 19:54

I'd love to really see duck calling at its finest and duck call craftsmanship at its finest, And he's got a very cool shop. For anybody who hasn't been to the Rich and Tone shop there in Stuttgart, you know, take a little pilgrimage and check it out, it's very cool.

Mike Anderson: 20:07

It's very cool. They've it they've made it into an event. You know, the shop isn't isn't what it was. Now I have a I have a partial bias. I love the new shop.

Mike Anderson: 20:15

I love the changes that that they've made. I mean, they've made it, like I said, into an event. But the the the shop from fifteen years ago on Worlds weekend are some of my greatest memories. I I really enjoyed you know, after the world's contest when we go down to the shop and and and hang out there, that that was so awesome. So awesome.

Mike Anderson: 20:33

Yeah. I'm Special time. I wish at the time yeah. Super and I wish at the time, if I could rewind back, I would I would I would have made a point to tell John and Angie how much that meant to all of us because I don't think, you know, at the time being, you know, all of us at at that time, I can say we were the entitled 20 year olds, but being the 20 year old age group, I I don't think we necessarily did a good enough job letting them know how big of a deal and how much that meant to us. That was a a really cool place to be at.

John Gordon: 21:00

Yeah. Yeah. And I know John enjoyed every minute of it as well-being, you know, three time world champion, champion of champions. Oh, yeah. I mean, he he did it all and and just what what a super guy too.

John Gordon: 21:11

I mean, just a really kind soul.

Mike Anderson: 21:12

Yeah. For sure.

John Gordon: 21:13

Alright, everybody. We're gonna take a little break on the DU podcast, and we'll be right back with more from Mike Anderson.

VO: 21:26

Stay tuned to the Ducks Unlimited podcast sponsored by Purina Pro Plan after these messages.

John Gordon: 21:39

Welcome back, everybody, to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. My guest today, 2009 world duck calling champion, Mike Anderson. We've been call talking about contest calling and what it takes really to be a champion. Let let's talk about the calls for a second, Mike.

Mike Anderson: 21:53

Yes, sir.

John Gordon: 21:54

Let's talk about contest calls first. What do you think, in your opinion, makes a great contest call? Is it volume? Is it clarity? What do you what do you think?

Mike Anderson: 22:03

Man, that's a that's a

John Gordon: 22:05

That's a question.

Mike Anderson: 22:06

We could sit down we we could sit down and and and crack some bush lights and really talk at length about that. But if I if I look at it through my lens, what I what I like, I think something that has enough volume but then still has enough bottom end to sound like a duck that you would be comfortable hunting with it. I would say the the trend has steered a little bit away from that, but if you can get a call that has enough volume but still allows you to sound like a duck on the bottom end and and gives you enough range to do what you wanna do. That's what I look for.

John Gordon: 22:44

And that's the same thing, I think, in a hunting call too. Right? At least for me, it is.

Mike Anderson: 22:48

Yeah. 100100%. You know, the the same rules apply. They honestly, they do apply because, know, a hail call, you know, doesn't sound like a duck. But I but I will say this.

Mike Anderson: 22:58

I still say this, and, you know, my buddy Sean Saul used to always say this, and and I plagiarize him here and there. But, like, when we're operating the call, we're not always trying to sound like a duck. You know? We're trying to trigger a reaction. You know?

Mike Anderson: 23:10

We're either, you know, trying trying to get them to hear us from when they're way out or or or sometimes, you know, if if they're starting to bank wide and pitch in, you know, downwind or or somewhere left or right that we don't want them to, we might bark at them real hard just to trigger that reaction. I think the same thing, you know, you want on a contest call, you want something that can bark and something that can get loud, you know, get good tone on top, but then you can finish it too. And I just think that sound resonates on stage.

John Gordon: 23:38

Exactly. And it's too for hunting. We talked about this at LINK as well that I like loud calls. You like loud calls. You can't make a a softer call loud, but you can get softer with a loud call.

Mike Anderson: 23:49

And I think people really need

John Gordon: 23:50

to focus on trying to to really be able to control their airflow to do that.

Mike Anderson: 23:55

100%. You know, like, Jimbo kind of blew up the Mondo a little bit, you know, kind of really, you know, expanded duck call making horizons beyond the little niche of the old just in Arkansas by creating the mondo. And and I hunt on marshes, and I hunt on big water. And I I blow a mondo as much as I do a small JFrame call because exactly like you said, you you you can blow a loud call quiet. You can't blow a quiet call loud, and and those cut down style calls just have that bark that can trigger that reaction and can get out there too.

John Gordon: 24:29

That's right. I interviewed Jimbo for a article I wrote for Greenhead Magazine on cut down calls years ago, and the Mondo had just really come out at that point. Mhmm. He talked about he thought what he really thought separated the cut down style call from a j frame was the frequency level that you could really get that bass note that would carry to a duck's ears a lot farther, and it and it makes a lot of sense. You you can really feel and hear bass like in a stereo system a lot more than treble.

John Gordon: 24:57

You can be twenty, thirty feet outside the vehicle and still feel that bass pumping.

Mike Anderson: 25:01

Yeah. Correct. Correct. Agreed on I could not agree with that more. And a lot of the times too when you duck hunt and and depending on your weather, but let's say you've got a 15 mile an hour wind.

Mike Anderson: 25:10

And let's say your ducks are 500 yards away, whatever the measurement is. Well, if you add a 15 mile an hour wind to a duck flapping its wings, the odds of him hearing you with a regular timberscale call are kinda slim. So sometimes you need to bark at him in that base like Jimbo described. I I just believe in it. In fact, last year last year, I was down there hunting with him at his camp, and there's a couple different places you can hunt there.

Mike Anderson: 25:34

We we had a hole on the tree line on the edge of a rice field, and he was hunting a a tree line hole in a slough. And he was I don't know if I put a put a measurement on, but let's say a quarter mile away. And he was blowing his mando. And at that distance, it actually sounded like a Mylored Hen to me from that distance, the way that that sound carried and traveled. And and I I would not say, like, if I stand next to a guy that hits a lick on a on a mando or a cut down style, I don't necessarily resonate that to an actual mallard hem.

Mike Anderson: 26:06

You know? I think it when I'm standing right next to it, it doesn't have that same sound, but when I was that far away, it sounded exactly like a Mallard hen.

John Gordon: 26:13

And that's why it works. I've seen so many Mallard Drakes, especially single ones cruising by, not not respond at all to a j frame. You hit them with that bark on that Mondo, and, man, all of a sudden, boom, they wheel around because they heard it. They felt it. And and Right.

John Gordon: 26:29

They just didn't feel the j frame. And I guess, explain j frame call versus cut down. I for people who really don't know, I mean, the j frame is like the standard Arkansas style call, and then what they did with the old calls, you know, they cut them down and made them louder. So explain that for a little bit to the to the audience there, Mike.

Mike Anderson: 26:46

In layman's terms, a traditional j frame style call, when you hold the insert up, and I'm holding one in my hand right now, when you hold the insert up, it is shaped like a j. And I'm not gonna be able to tell the length of it, but, essentially, the reed is shorter, and the the tone board is traditional. Now a cut down call, when you hold the insert in your hand, it's still shaped like a j. But what they the old guys, the original guys that kinda did this first on the olds in Southern Arkansas is they would they would take that insert, and they would cut it off at the end. And then when you look at a cut down style call, the read is a lot longer, which, you know, I am not I am not as proficient when it comes to call making as as guys that do it, but this is how I I think of it in my head.

Mike Anderson: 27:30

Think of your read as an RPM. Okay? You know, a JFrame calls, the RPM on the the the read goes up and down at a faster, smoother rate, whereas the the cut down call is longer and has a has a slower RPM rate creating that base, if that makes sense.

John Gordon: 27:48

And that just translates into a lower frequency on the cut down, which carries farther in the air. And that's that's the main difference, folks. You know, you just gotta realize that that's why the cut down has become such a staple now in the calling world. And a lot of thanks to Jimbo for for really creating it commercially.

Mike Anderson: 28:05

Yeah. Yeah. Dude, totally. I mean, he you know, obviously, he he'll never take credit for this because it's just the way that he is. But, you know, if you really look at it, you know, and I and I can't speak for RT or for John, but I'm I'm I'm pretty sure that I have been told that once after the first year of the Mondo, every year since then, the number one selling, you know, call maker was a KajaMondo.

Mike Anderson: 28:26

That that that that says it in in itself. And I know there's other other versions like a JJ Layers, which I don't use, but I've blown them. They have a different method of getting to there, and I'll butcher the science, but they've got an insert and has a different type of read. But they they kind of play with that same type of frequency, and they get there in their their own way too.

John Gordon: 28:48

Yeah. For those that are not really familiar with JJ Layers, he's a Western guy. So a lot of the Western folks really that's what they use is JJs. Yeah. And it's calling is kinda cool too in calls because people are they're regional with them.

John Gordon: 29:00

You know? They like to use a lot of the stuff that that is available in their region and their area, so that that's a cool part of it as well.

Mike Anderson: 29:08

Yeah. It is so cool, man. And the older the older that I get, the more I appreciate some of that and that and that side of it where, you know, years ago, I might not have as much, and I'm a little bit more fascinated with it. You know? And and you probably, you know, you've probably gotten through the same thing.

Mike Anderson: 29:21

I think of all the different calls that I've had over the years that I've either sold or given away or or lost or something like that, but that I would just I would love to have packed right now.

John Gordon: 29:31

Me me too. I I thought about that the other day. I you know, when I moved to Texas as a kid, the the big call and still a big call in that part of the world Mhmm. Well, and all over the place, really, is the old, you know, cowboy Fernandez calls Mhmm. You know, that that he made and actually won the world championship in 1959, I believe, that with that call, you know, the Sure calls.

John Gordon: 29:55

And and I have no idea where my original Sure Shot is that I got when I was a kid, and, man, I I would really love to have it.

Mike Anderson: 30:02

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No doubt.

Mike Anderson: 30:03

I had an old old Solderman '66 that my dad gave me in, I don't know what year, probably, sometime in the late eighties, early nineties, and then I'd love to have Ed. And then in the in the in the early two thousands when I was getting into contest calling, like, all the daisy cutters and stuff like that, I can remember I I had two original daisy cutters that had the clear barrel and the black insert with the skull and crossbones that I don't know. John only made, like, 50 of them or whatever it was, and I gave them to kids one time when I was doing the youth event. And now I've heard that those things are selling for, $4,000 on on on Facebook.

John Gordon: 30:42

That that's a whole another world too, and I learned a lot about it at Callpalooza, the call collector. Yeah. I mean, guys, man, guys were showing me pictures of their call rooms that were just like, my lord, so elaborate. And they had these cases built into the walls and just they had thousands of calls, and I just couldn't wrap my head around it. I like calls, but, man, not that much.

Mike Anderson: 31:02

Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah.

Mike Anderson: 31:04

You're not wrong. You're not wrong. Yeah. Like, I I've got so I've got on my lander, I've got a daisy cutter that I've had on there since, I don't know, like, thousand four, 2005, maybe 2003. And I had a guy one time, he's like, oh, you hunt with that?

Mike Anderson: 31:15

And I'm like, why wouldn't I? He's like, that's a that's a that's a this scroll or that scroll. I don't I'm not even sure what scroll it is. It's like a full scroll something or other, and he's like, man, you could sell that for, like, $700. And I'm like, what?

Mike Anderson: 31:30

Really?

John Gordon: 31:31

Yeah. I mean, you talk there's nerds and everything. Right? You got to call nerds. They know the specific little differences on the barrels and the inserts that make calls more collectible.

John Gordon: 31:42

And I just Like I said, I've been blowing the same daisy cutter. I've had two for years, and I I wouldn't know what style that is or, you know, if I hey. You can put a gun to my head.

Mike Anderson: 31:50

Right. Right. In a way, it's better not to know. It's kinda the the way I

John Gordon: 31:55

know that I you got a valuable call.

Mike Anderson: 31:56

You know? Right. Right. Now now let me tell you. If it it creeps up above a thousand bucks, someone please let me know.

Mike Anderson: 32:03

It's for sake. Every everything yeah. That's right, man. You know, I I everyone asks me someone will ask me, like, you know, hey. Do you like your fishing boat?

Mike Anderson: 32:10

Are you selling it? I'm like, hey, man. Everything at my house except for my kids and my wife is for sale. If you're willing to pay me the rat price for it, I will gladly sell it.

John Gordon: 32:21

That's right. That's right. Calls have come a tremendously long way, but there there's, you know, the old metal reed style calls that are really popular, like places like Real Foot Lake to, you know, the really development of plastics to acrylic calls, and the acrylics have really been the the elite calls of the last, you know, thirty, forty years Just because, I mean, they're a lot more stable than wood, but I love a wood call too, man. I mean, there's just something that you know, just something beautiful. Just like a you know, I still shoot a lot of wood stock, you know, blue steel walnut guns.

John Gordon: 32:50

You know? Just Sure. Just a little more romantic, I think, to have a wood car.

Mike Anderson: 32:54

Yeah. Yeah. Totally. My my I've got an old Ithaca model 37 that I that I hunt every once in a while, hunt with every once in a while, and it's a Woodstock, and it's just pretty. There's something about it that I like better.

John Gordon: 33:05

That synthetic stock camo gun, man, just does have just it's got no romance, you know? It just doesn't any character.

Mike Anderson: 33:11

No. It's it's a tool, you know? Yeah. It's a it's a push ball, it's a decoy retriever, and it'll shoot ducks.

John Gordon: 33:18

I got I've got an old metal recall that, you know, my uncle's foundation guy, my uncle was, you know, a real estate developer, home builder, and a guy named Dick Reed in Dick, Mississippi, and I forgot he was, you know, the guy that taught him of those how to make those calls, and I've still got it, and it's just one of my most prized possessions. I don't hunt with it. It's in my office in a display case because it's just it means a lot to me, but it's a, you know, it's a real loud call, and it will turn ducks at a long way. I've I've seen it, and I think, once again, I think it's because it's got a low frequency, and it it it really has that sound they're looking for.

Mike Anderson: 33:53

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's just like, you know, the same rules apply. You know, we we we haven't you know, especially in my time, we haven't exactly reinvented the wheel, but I but I would say what we have done is refined the wheel and and maybe put some better bearings and a bigger engine in it. The the what works, what docks react to has not changed.

Mike Anderson: 34:14

In fact, right now, there's a there's a pretty big comeback of the Yensins.

John Gordon: 34:18

Yeah. Well, new ownership, and they really have developed, you know, that style call in a modern platform where, know Yeah. Like I said, I was talking about before, but Cowboy Fernandez developed that call back in the nineteen fifties, and they've really taken it to a modern day level now, and I'm I'm sure they're doing well with it.

Mike Anderson: 34:37

Yeah. You know, a buddy of mine came and hunted with me, you know, I think a weekend or two weekends before you, and he brought one with him, and we messed around with it. And and, man, it still has that same bass and that same good sound, and it sounds good.

John Gordon: 34:51

Yeah. That you know, I I haven't I haven't used one of the new ones. I really, you know, I don't like any excuse to spend money on duck hunting stuff. I'm may set to buy one and see what it's like. You know?

John Gordon: 35:02

It's I'm I'm a sucker for something new.

Mike Anderson: 35:05

Oh, absolutely, man. You know what? It it it's half of the fun.

John Gordon: 35:08

Shoot. For me, a lot of times, it's all fun. Because I think about duck hunting and stuff three hundred and sixty five days a year. Right? And so it never never stops, And I'm always like, man, I need to get this and the other, and that's pretty cool.

John Gordon: 35:19

And and then that's something to go. You know, there's been a lot of big time call makers over the years. Guys like Eli Haydell, you're talking about musicians. Right? I mean, his family

Mike Anderson: 35:27

Oh, yeah.

John Gordon: 35:27

Big time musicians, and they really develop their their love for calls and calling from from a background in in musicianship. And I think, you know, Eli was a big sax player, and so I think that's a big part of their legacy and what he really brought to the calling table. Those old d r 80 fives still work pretty good.

Mike Anderson: 35:44

Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. And they still have that sound, and they they still have that same model, and and and it then ducks still react the same way to it. It's they sound like a duck, man.

John Gordon: 35:54

Yeah. That's it. That's it. Sounds like a duck. Alright.

John Gordon: 35:57

We'll switch gears again a little bit on you because we did something that I don't do a lot of, which hunt out of boats. And your boat setup was one of the cooler setups I've ever hunted out of, and that's because you love to hunt rivers. Right? And where did that start? When did you really become a guy that, man, you look at a river and you just see ducks falling out of the sky?

Mike Anderson: 36:16

Man, you know, that started honestly, I'm I'm gonna date back. I'm gonna say it was Taken volume two or three when when Barney Caleb hunted with Buck Gardner on the Missouri River, when I watched that, my eyes were you know, living up here see, we don't live you know, where I directly live, you know, we'll shoot we'll shoot mallards, and we'll have good mallard days. But if we go and shoot two or three limits of mallards, we may have seen a 100 ducks, 100 mallards that day. So we don't see stuff like that. I'm like, man, that's cool.

Mike Anderson: 36:46

So I built a a little 12 foot v hull and and put a blind on it and and and kinda started that. And then a good friend of mine that that you know too you knew too, bless his heart, Wayne Salem.

John Gordon: 36:58

Good old Wayne. Yep.

Mike Anderson: 36:59

Yeah, man. That you know, there's a duck hunter, then there's Wayne.

John Gordon: 37:02

Then there's Wayne.

Mike Anderson: 37:03

Every duck hunter is looking up to Wayne. Yep. And it's it's amazing when you go to places and you bring up his name, how many people north to south know who that man or man was. But so he he we started with mud motor rigs and pop up lines, and and we have slowly, you know, wanted you know, we used to think before that, hey. We needed a mud motor.

Mike Anderson: 37:24

We needed a mud motor to get here and here and here, and we started hunting more and saying, well, you know, we're cold. We don't go as fast, and we're not, you know, cutting through that much mud. So I finally kinda bit the bullet and and kinda went all in and and and bought a a 2072. It's a tracker model 2008 and just started to kinda hack away on it this last summer and put a one fifteen four stroke on it, learned how to weld aluminum. Like, we we I was joking with you.

Mike Anderson: 37:51

We were in the boat. You can you can sit in the boat and and look at the blind and see where I started the build to where I finished it because I my my welding skills got a lot better as

John Gordon: 38:02

Evolution of your and Mike's welding skills. Yeah. You can see it, folks.

Mike Anderson: 38:06

Don't know. They're blind there. Yeah. So, So our our theory with it well, we guys have been hunting hunting with them for twenty, thirty, probably forever, you know, but that we have seen for twenty, thirty years. But our theory was, one, we wanna stay warm.

Mike Anderson: 38:19

Two, we wanna stay safe. And and, three, I think I think the boats hide better than those pop up blinds. You you you get a a completely hard sided

John Gordon: 38:27

100% agreement on that. Because once you got back in those phragmites, cut some phragmites, put it in there, and your yours is covered in tumbleweeds. Am I correct? That's the outside cover?

Mike Anderson: 38:36

Yeah. Yes. Sure. I had a I have a base layer of aluminum sheeting, and then I put a base layer of blind grass camo on it. And then outside of that, I took tumbleweeds and and really coated it with tumbleweeds and just to give it that that three d effect, and and my my wife always likes to use the analogy, it looks like a chia pet.

John Gordon: 38:55

That's a good one. Yeah. It kinda does.

Mike Anderson: 38:57

It does. Exactly. And then what we do when we hunt, wherever we're hunting, like, we hunted in frags phragmites that day, we just take a hedge trimmer out, cut phragmites, stick it in there, stick it in the tumbleweed, and and get covered up, you know, get get some shadows going over the hunting holes and and fire up the black stone and cook some food and shoot some ducks.

John Gordon: 39:15

Yeah. It's a really nice rig, folks. Once again, you can see it all on DU Nation on YouTube. It sound like an advertisement right there. It kinda did.

Mike Anderson: 39:21

It did. I'm trying to

John Gordon: 39:22

get more viewers. Alright. You know

Mike Anderson: 39:24

what I'm saying? Hey. You're doing a great job, man. I can't wait to see the the drone footage

John Gordon: 39:29

Oh, yeah. The drone

Mike Anderson: 39:30

it looks from the duck's perspective.

John Gordon: 39:31

I I always love it too, you know, because I don't know. You know, Zach's seeing it on his phone, but I I don't know what it looks like until it it come you know, he shows it to me later, and I'm always amazed by the things you can see. And the things you can see in the distance that you don't that that you're looking from a bird's eye view. That that's been such a huge development in video over the last because before that, all you had had to have a plane or a helicopter to get that perspective. Right.

John Gordon: 39:53

And now you get it every video, run the drone up, and, you know, he was running that drone right there with us running down the river too, and that's gotta be really cool.

Mike Anderson: 40:00

Yeah. It's gotta be super cool. Yeah, man. It was a it was a pleasure getting you guys out there, and and and I just love hunting out of that boat. It's funny.

Mike Anderson: 40:06

Every time I I I look for ducks now, I look for a boat ramp. I'm like, can I get the boat down there or not? Can I

John Gordon: 40:12

get the boat in?

Mike Anderson: 40:13

I'm not yeah. I'm I'm not gonna say that I that it's making me soft, but it's just making me you know, it's making me wanna hunt out of it, put all that work into it. And, you know, we had we had decent hunting when you were there, but, you know, after you left, we really got into them. And and a buddy of mine said that I I had kind of a proud daddy moment those last three days, and we shot limits of greenheads for three days in a row. It was it was awesome.

John Gordon: 40:36

Yeah. Nothing like it. Nothing like it. You know, it's just waterfowl, honey. Right?

John Gordon: 40:40

It's all be be in the right place at the right time. It's everything in it.

Mike Anderson: 40:43

Yeah. Right right place, right time, and, you know, the stuff in between, it's still great. You know, we may have not crushed limits limits to greenheads or shot limits to greenheads before you were there. It was still a great time. We're still seeing some pretty cool stuff, and, you know, anytime you get to hunt in a boat that's got a 22 inch black stone and eat breakfast, that's not a bad thing.

John Gordon: 41:03

You know, man, I tell you, those pancakes were awesome that you had, you know, both days. Yeah. The The pancake.

Mike Anderson: 41:09

The pigs in a blanket, they're not a bad thing.

John Gordon: 41:12

You you have a favorite river hunt you can go back on and say, man, that was really special for whatever reason?

Mike Anderson: 41:19

I got two. One was from 2014, me and my son, who who's now 23, gonna be 24, we were we were hunting our way down to Arkansas for the world's championship. And we were hunting with Wayne and a few others, and we had a pod of ducks that were kind of isolated in a given spot on the river, and we weren't hunting the x. We were leaving them bee and hunting the edges, and we were we were milking out, you know, you know, a couple weeks worth of really good hunting. And then the Thanksgiving it was either Thanksgiving morning or the morning before, we said as a group, we're like, alright.

Mike Anderson: 41:53

You know, we're all gonna be gone. We're not coming back for a couple of weeks, and the water's falling out. They're getting to winter levels up there. We said, hey. Let's go hunt them.

Mike Anderson: 42:01

So we went we went out, and we hunted we hunted the X, and we call it thirty thirty. We killed 30 greenheads in thirty minutes. It was you know, my little guy was he was 13, I think, at that time, and he was shooting a little s x three twenty gauge. And, normally, being the little guy, you just kinda let him go. I remember having a turd to tell him.

Mike Anderson: 42:18

I'm like, Ben, you shot enough duck. It's it's it's time for you to put your gun down. And with the older guys. Uh-huh. And then then another one that sticks in my head was was the year after the flood, and and I'm gonna butcher the year, so it's, November '12 somewhere.

John Gordon: 42:34

That was 2011. Yeah.

Mike Anderson: 42:35

That sounds right. So it would've been November '12, like you said, and and we were hunting the near the hole that we hunted, and it was one of those trips that we didn't we didn't kill anything. And it was we didn't know if we were gonna go. My tilt trim wasn't working, and we said, let's go. And we went out, and we froze our butts off.

Mike Anderson: 42:52

But we killed four limits, and we finished bunches of, you know, 100 plus, and that one really sticks in my head too, and I got a couple ducks on them from that one.

John Gordon: 43:00

I'm just running the the scenario of ducks coming down. I I just I got to see these mallards working those cornfields in South Dakota. It's it's just it's hanging with me. You know?

Mike Anderson: 43:09

And they

John Gordon: 43:09

were just bombing out the sky in big numbers, and it just man. When you're underneath that as a waterfowl hunter, those memories, you know, last a lifetime.

Mike Anderson: 43:18

They do, man. I'll I'll you know, the it's it's like so you you go hunting, and it doesn't matter if you're in Arkansas, if if you're in Missouri, you're in Minnesota, you're in South Dakota, North Dakota, you don't always get them. And and in fact Right. You probably get them less times than than you do get them, but those days where they're special, that's what keeps you going. If you have 10 bad ones in a row, those days just they they stick in your head, and and they keep you keep you on it and keep you getting after it.

John Gordon: 43:43

That's it. Because you're one day closer to that day every time you go out the door. And I tell people, man, you just gotta get out there. You gotta go Yeah. And do it.

Mike Anderson: 43:52

You just you you know what? That that cliche saying that you came up with, you know, however many years ago. Right. It it's not it's a cliche. Just go, man.

Mike Anderson: 44:01

You gotta just go. You you you can't kill them sitting at home on the couch, and you don't get to see a show sitting at home on the couch. It's a true experience. It's nature's paradise, man.

John Gordon: 44:11

And it's being November, man. I'm fired up right now. I just wanna throw on some waiters and run out the door.

Mike Anderson: 44:16

That's right. That's right, man. I you know, like this weekend, you know, this this weekend is a prime example of just go. If you look at the forecast, it's not it's not anything to get fired about.

John Gordon: 44:25

Really ideal. Nothing like what we had just a couple weeks ago.

Mike Anderson: 44:28

No. Heck no. But you know what? We're gonna go. We're gonna go fire up the Blackstone.

Mike Anderson: 44:32

We're we'll probably shoot some gag walls in in in maybe a mile or two, and maybe we'll get them. Maybe we won't, but we're gonna go no matter what.

John Gordon: 44:39

That's right, brother. It's all it's all good. Man, I can't thank you enough, Mike, for for joining me on the podcast. It's been a real pleasure.

Mike Anderson: 44:45

Yeah, man. Well, thanks for having me on. I can sit and talk duck calling and duck hunting anytime.

John Gordon: 44:49

No kidding. I can sit here and do this entire day. That's that's no problem at all.

Mike Anderson: 44:53

Like we said, you know, we're we're hunting the boats, you kinda got a dream job, man. This is awesome.

John Gordon: 44:58

I'm not gonna complain, Mike. I wanna tell you.

Mike Anderson: 45:00

No. No. Uh-uh. Yeah. Yeah.

John Gordon: 45:01

No. No. Nobody would complain in my position if you're if you're a waterfowl junkie. That's for sure. Absolutely.

John Gordon: 45:07

Anyway. Well, thanks again, Mike. And, man, looking forward to seeing you again in the future. That's right.

Mike Anderson: 45:11

I'd to

John Gordon: 45:11

thank our audience and thank everybody out there for supporting Ducks Unlimited and wetlands and waterfowl conservation.

VO: 45:23

Thank you for listening to the DU podcast, sponsored by Purina Pro Plan, the official performance dog food of Ducks Unlimited. Purina Pro Plan, always advancing. Be sure to rate, review, and subscribe to the show and visit ducks.org/dupodcast. Opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect those of Ducks Unlimited. Until next time, stay tuned to the Ducks.